Why Hasn't Baseball Produced Another Shohei Ohtani?

Picked comments (excerpted from 147)

• u/SilentAcoustic▲ 87

  野球は難しいんだよ。選手の99.99%は、二刀流に挑むより打撃か投球どっちかに集中した方がいい結果になる。

  Because baseball is hard and 99.99% of players are better off trying to focus on hitting or pitching instead of trying to do both

• u/StinkyStangler▲ 53

  トップ10の投手になるのも、トップ10の打者になるのも超ムズい。それを同時にやるのはもっと無理ゲー。一部の人間はただの規格外なんだよ。大谷は才能と鍛錬が完璧に噛み合ってる。

  It's extremely hard to be a top ten pitcher or a top ten batter, it's even harder to be both at the same time, some people are just freak athletes. Ohtani just has the perfect confluence of skills and training.

• u/twinklytennis▲ 10

  俺の見方だと、プロでトップ100に入るにはその競技の才能が要る。けど投球と打撃って基本“別の競技”なんだ。つまり二刀流は別々の2競技どっちでも才能が要るってことで、そんな奴めったにいない。

  the way I see it, to be a pro and let's say be top 100 in it, you need talent in that sport. However, pitching and hitting are basically two different sports so you need talent in 2 different sports to meet this criteria.

• u/Adventurous_Title_96▲ 76

  いやでもブライス・エルドリッジを見ろよ。高校では二刀流のスーパースターだったのに、ジャイアンツがドラフトで獲った瞬間に純粋な打者へ転向させた。大谷は日本でそれを証明できる環境に恵まれたし、打投両方を伸ばすチャンスをくれた数少ない球団=エンゼルスと契約できたんだ。

  Look at Bryce Eldridge was a two way super star in high school, second giants got him in the draft they turned him into a pure hitter. Ohtani had the luxury to prove it in Japan + signing with the angels one of the few teams that gave him a chance to learn and grow in both

• u/Stangstag▲ 58

  つまりさ……エンゼルスが珍しくちゃんと仕事したってこと？

  Soooo what you're saying is the Angels actually did something right?

• u/--Annorax--▲ 48

  壊れた時計でも日に2回は正しい時刻を指すからな。（※エンゼルスファン本人による自虐）

  A broken clock is right twice a day

• u/YasielPuigsWeed▲ 22

  俺が読んだ限り、エンゼルスが一番“彼のやり方”を尊重して、すぐにダメ出しして打ち切らなかったらしい。球団は勝つ気ゼロだったし、大谷は新人の安月給。だから好きにやらせても損が無かったんだ。球団の無能さが大谷に有利に働いたの、ちょっと笑えるよな。

  From what I've read the Angels showed the most willingness to let him do it his way and not just pull the plug if it didn't work immediately. The organization didn't give a shit about winning and Ohtani was on rookie salary so there wasn't any downside to just letting him cook. Kinda funny how their incompetence worked in Shohei's favor.

• u/speech-geek▲ 17

  『In the Japanese Ballpark』って本を読んだんだけど、実際に彼を育てて二刀流を試させたのは日本ハムファイターズなんだ。エンゼルスはMLBレベルへの適応を手伝ったけど、土台を作ったのは間違いなくファイターズだよ。

  I read "In the Japanese Ballpark" and the author interviewed a Nippon Ham Fighters guy. Really it was the Fighters who developed him and gave him the chance to test out being a two way. Angels helped with the transition to MLB level pitching/hitting but the Fighters really laid the foundation.

• u/goatfuckinghamas▲ 9

  いや、NPBが大谷に二刀流を許したのは、高卒でMLB行くぞって脅したからだよ。日本でそれを許されたのは後にも先にも大谷ただ一人だ。

  NPB only let Ohtani do two way because he threatened to go to MLB after high school. He's still the only one ever allowed to do that.

• u/DolphinRodeo▲ 20

  日本でも基本的に二刀流は推奨されてないんだよ。大谷が特殊だったのは、高卒で即アメリカ行きを考えてたこと。ファイターズとの交渉で、入団を口説く条件として二刀流をやらせると約束したんだ。

  It's by and large discouraged in Japan as well. Ohtani was a unique case in that he was planning to come to America straight out of high school. As part of his negotiations with the Fighters, they agreed to let him play both ways as part of convincing him to sign.

• u/DependentLanguage540▲ 13

  日本のアナリストたちも、キャリア初期は大谷にすごく批判的だったんだぜ。二刀流に挑戦すること自体を『わがままだ』って呼んでた。

  Japanese analysts were very critical of Ohtani early in his career too, calling him selfish for even trying to be a two way player.

• u/Horangiya▲ 2

  ダルビッシュ有でさえ、テレビ番組で大谷に『二刀流はもう諦めろ』って言ってたしな。

  even Yu Darvish spoke about Ohtani in a tv show telling him to just give up the two-way play

• u/DependentLanguage540▲ 3

  そうそう。多くのMLB選手も言ってたけど、二刀流は不可能だと思われてた。なのに今こうして実現して、不可能を超えて“常識”をぶち壊してるんだ。

  Exactly, as many MLB players said, it was thought to be impossible, but here he is doing it, transcending the impossible and pushing past the narratives.

• u/carsmello▲ 39

  『アメリカの育成システムが専業を強制してる』って言う奴がいるけど、あれはただの言い訳。マイケル・ローレンゼンは二刀流を許されたけど、打撃も投球も大谷より下だった。認めたくないだろうけど真実はこうだ——他に才能のある奴がいないだけ。

  People will bring up the American system forcing people to specialize, but that's just pure cope. Michael Lorenzen was allowed to try it, and he's both worse hitter and pitcher than Ohtani. The truth, whether people like it or not, is that no one else is talented enough.

• u/ShadowSora▲ 23

  レイズが2018年ドラフト全体4位のブレンダン・マッケイで同じことを試したんだよ。大学最終年は .341/.457/.659 で18HR、しかも109イニング防御率2.56で146奪三振。とんでもない才能だった。でもマイナーに上がったら打撃が安定せず、怪我も重なって、2022年に打者を諦めた。マジで二刀流はキツいんだ。

  The Rays tried this with Brendan McKay when he was drafted 4th overall in 2018. In his last year in college he hit .341/.457/.659 with 18 HR and he had a 2.56 ERA in 109 IP with 146 Ks. Dude was insanely talented. When he got to the minors, he started struggling on and off with his hitting and injuries started to eat him up. He eventually gave up trying to be a hitter in 2022. Shit is really hard

• u/CpowOfficial▲ 7

  ジャック・カグリアノーネを見ろよ。大学では二刀流で、マイナーで挑戦した後も結局どっちかに絞った。

  Look at jac caglinone. He was 2 way in college and even after attempting in the minors he switched.

• u/Happy-Bandicoot-2025▲ 11

  あと休養な。大谷は1日12〜14時間寝てるらしいぞ。

  And rest, Ohtani sleeps 12-14 hours a day

• u/quailinthebrush▲ 1

  一人いたじゃん。名前はベーブ・ルースっていうんだ。

  There was one, his nane was Babe Ruth

• u/Il_Exile_lI▲ 5

  いや、ベーブ・ルースも“完全な二刀流シーズン”は実は無いんだ。1918年と1919年が一番近いけど、先発数は専業時代の半分。打者として唯一一流だった1919年も登板は15先発だけ。その後は投球をやめて、翌年にはHRをほぼ倍増させてる。つまり“同時に両方一流”ってわけじゃない。

  Babe Ruth never really had a full 2 way season. 1918 and 1919 are the closest, but he was making half as many starts as he did when a full time pitcher. 1919 was the only truly elite, mostly full season he had as a hitter while still pitching, but he only made 15 starts. He stopped pitching after that and pretty much doubled his HR total the next season.

• u/Stangstag▲ 7

  あの……チョコバーの？（※「ベーブ・ルースがいるだろ」への返信。アメリカには Baby Ruth という同名のチョコバーがある）

  Like the chocolate bar?

• u/Kilgoretrout321▲ 1

  正直、あのチョコは過小評価されてるけどな。

  Underrated candy tbh